Ep. 30: Tog-Talk is back after a 12 month gap

[00:00:00] Hi, my name is Kevin Ahronson from Hampshire School of Photography and welcome to Tog -Talk.

And this is all about photographers in conversation, that's why it's called Tog- Talk because Tog is a bit of a crap slang word for photographer. I don't actually like it, but I just wanted something catchy. So it's tog- talk. com. That's the website tog- talk. com.

Up until this point in time, really, it's just been basically me and the occasional invited guest, from now on, until we get bored of each other or until we have a lovers tiff, me and Kelly... sorry, this is Hampshire; Kelly and I, will be co hosting. We'll be sharing the responsibility.

And she is paying me a vast sum of money to appear on every session as well. So if you see me driving in a Lamborghini next time, yeah.

He stole it.

So what can I say about first of all, okay. So Hampshire school of photography. If you want to find out more about Hampshire school of photography, [00:01:00] where we teach photography to amateur photographers with courses running from one day to one year, check out the website, the school of photography.

So gohsp.com. On the other hand, if you want to get involved in our free online Facebook community, then check out the Hampshire Photography Network on Facebook, and sign up to join. Make sure you answer all the questions, otherwise you won't be let in. And then we'll let you in and it's free and you get discounts and all the workshops in there and you pick up loads and loads of good information and we go out and events.

And if you do wanna send in an email to say, Hey, how can I spend vast amounts of money to be the best photographer on the planet? Then drop us an email at support@gohsp.com. Right, so better give a bit of background here.

Why Kelly?

Back in 2017, Kelly was one of my students. And she was with me for a whole year with private tutoring, a whole range of subjects to take a [00:02:00] photography from where it was to. where she wanted it to be. And today, I think it'd be really good if we get to know Kelly, find out how it all started, where she went after she left me, the issues she's had.

We've had some chats about this, which has sparked off the our feeling that we need to do this because she said issues, which probably peculiar to women.

Yeah.

Heaven knows they're a peculiar bunch. But I want to hear this because I wasn't even aware this stuff was going on. So it's fascinating.

And then we just explore at the end of the show, we're featuring a question from our Tog-Talk website. You can leave questions for the site on tog hyphen talk. com by just pressing a butter and speaking into the microphone. And you can say, yeah, this is my question. And then whatever the question is, and if you're lucky, we'll read it on air.

So some fun questions. First of all, How did you get into photography? Oh, that's not a silly question. [00:03:00] How did I get into photography? I actually got into photography by accident. It was never on my radar. It was never something that I ever thought I was going to do. And I just enjoyed taking photos on throwaway cameras and, you know things like that.

And then when I met my now husband, I think the first birthday that I had, he bought me what I would call a proper camera. So that's how I got into it. I kind of fell into it by accident. Okay. So what was the first camera? So the first camera was a Canon 100D. I think it cost about 250, which was a lot of money.

Knowing your husband. That's about as cheap as they came. Isn't it? Yeah. But do you know what? I loved that camera and I used that camera for [00:04:00] years. And in fact, I don't think I traded up until I joined you. Maybe just before I joined you. Because I when I joined you, I was using my Canon Five D Mark three, which I still use today.

Favorite lens? My nifty 50. It comes everywhere with me. You may have to explain what a nifty 50 is for those people. who dunno, and we take it for granted. I think that everybody knows what it is. So my, it's a a 50 mil prime lens. You actually recommended it to me which is, I'm good. I'm like, you're so good.

It's unbelievable. Sometimes. You recommended that to me because while I was with you I got offered a photography job and it was going to be, Kind of backstage in a theater, pitch black most of the time, not allowed to use flash. There's not really going to be any lighting and they wanted [00:05:00] behind the scenes, candid, candid shots and I came to you and I said, look, this is, this is what's happened.

I don't know what to do. I think I'm gonna say no. And you said, don't be ridiculous. Go and get yourself a nifty fifty. You'll be fine do the whole shoot on that and I did and you were fine, and I was fine I'm still to this day. It's probably one of my favorite photo shoots. I've ever done. It was It was incredible.

We'll hear more about that in a moment 'cause we're gonna talk about your history. Yeah. There's a question I got here on my list, which I don't think I even need to ask now because I think I know where this is going. Are you a prime or a Zoom person? I'm a prime. You're a prime person? Yes. Prime lens on Zoom lens.

Okay. Prime lens. I like to get uncomfortably close to people when I'm taking photos. If I need to zoom in, I just come closer. Who would be your favourite or most [00:06:00] influential photographer? So that would be a British fine art photographer. She's incredible. She's not to everybody's taste. She is called Kirsty Mitchell.

And she does very elaborate fairy tale photo shoots. I actually stumbled upon her in about 2016 with her Wonderland exhibit that she did. And yeah, she makes all her own costumes. Her history is a costume and fashion designer. So the fact that she's brought that into photography she makes everything herself.

She creates these really elaborate sets. And I think she inspired me a lot because I have a history of design. So. I love the fact that that kind of merges the two worlds together. Fantastic. I've heard the name, but I couldn't picture what she actually does. So I'll go and look it up. She's called Kirstie Mitchell.[00:07:00]

Mitchell. Yeah. Lovely. Thank you for that.

Oh, this one's a bit more difficult. I think.

What do you love most of all about photography?

I think you're going to like this. So I like that I can be hidden. I like that I can be hidden. So what I mean by that is I do a lot of candid kind of photography.

I do a lot of behind the scenes. People don't need to know I'm there. And I like that feeling of capturing incredible moments. and being completely hidden. People don't often see me. I spend a lot of my time not hiding, but I'm, you know, I turn up to shoots dressed in black. I'm hidden in, in, in the background.

And I, I like that. Ninja. Yes. You're a ninja. I'm a photography ninja. And I do. I love that. I love, I love that I can be hidden and I can capture those special moments. Okay, [00:08:00] that's good. Let's ask another one. Oh yeah, I like this one. What annoys you the most about photography? Well, at the risk of getting us cancelled, Kevin, white middle aged men.

Annoying me the most. I absolutely hate white middle aged men. Give me a white middle aged woman any day. We're going to explore this, aren't we? We are. As we go through. We are. Yeah, you've got some valid points on this one. I have, I have. And personal experience, personal experience as well. Like, not just an opinion.

Well, of course you have to be married to a white middle aged man as well. I am. And there is no evidence to suggest that he's the reason. Okay. In case he's listening. Okay. Mac or PC? Mac. Mac, [00:09:00] okay. 100%. Okay, now these are the really silly fun facts. Quick one word answers, no discussion. Favourite comfort food?

Chocolate. Marmite, yes or no? No. Favourite drink? Gin. Pink grapefruit. How do you relax? Grapefruit gin. How do you relax? I go shooting. Rifle shooting. That's like you didn't know about me. Yeah, yeah.

What film have you watched more than any other? It's so lame. Pride and Prejudice. Very girly answer.

Which one?

The more kind of, well I say more recent, it's not more recent any, any more. The Keira Knightley one? Yes.

Do you know what? I really like that film. I bought it. I really like that film.

Yeah. [00:10:00]

I don't do period dramas.

Oh, I do.

But I really liked that film.

Yeah.

I don't know why. That is my go to. I watch that all the time. Unless I'm with my husband and we can't find a film, then it's Star Trek.

My God, I'll tell you what, Jez needs to watch out. Now I know that you're a Trekkie as well. I'm a Trekkie, but he actually Yeah, he prefers Star Wars, but I'm a massive Trekkie. Yeah.

Okay, so here's a little known fact, and this is gonna amaze a lot of people. Mm. You are speaking to the person who bought the very first, first Star Wars tickets in the uk.

I was the front of the queue up in Tottenham Court Road when people were queuing. I queued from, I dunno what time of the morning. I was front, front the queue, and I, I purchased the very first tickets. And do you know what? Didn't enjoy the film?

Ah, see, I am [00:11:00] not a massive fan of Star Wars, and I did a shoot with the guy that plays, see, I don't even know his name, the guy that plays C 3PO.

I mean, people will be cursing us if they are Star Wars fans. And I did a shoot with him, and I was literally, I didn't even know that he was Z 3PO. Something that is very popular today that you can't stand? Ooh, something that's very popular today that I can't stand Ooh, I have two. Any kind of reality TV show, but specifically, like, Love Island.

I hate it and everything it stands for. But the big one that I get a lot of abuse for, I hate the film, Love Actually, you know, the Christmas film, Love Actually, that everybody loves. I hate it. Everybody has affairs. And wives die and people, it, it's, it's just the most depressing film. I don't get it. [00:12:00] And then the prime minister ruins a children's Christmas school play.

He's snobbing someone. So yeah, that's the one that people don't really understand why I don't like it. I just want to point out anybody watching this. I hope you're picking up the really good photographic tips so far. All right. Dream car. Lamborghini. Lamborghini. Favourite type of music? Musical theatre.

I know, sorry. I know, but I'm a theatre girl. Finally, famous holiday destination. To take a camera. Oh, to take a camera? Hmm, that's a tricky one. Favourite holiday? Hmm, well, if I was taking my camera, love a bit of landscape, I'd quite happily just go up to Scotland and do some beautiful landscape stuff there, to be honest.

If I wasn't taking a camera. [00:13:00] Then, St Lucia. Very nice. Maybe I could take an underwater camera. Yes. Yeah. Okay, hit me with the same questions now. Okay, so, comfort food. Mashed potato. Mashed potato can be on my plate with anything you want to serve up. I'm with you on that to be honest. Marmite, yes or no?

Absolutely yes, daily. In large quantities. Favourite drink? Single malt whiskey. If I have to specify, it would be Abelowa Abuna. But you won't even know what that is. No, I won't. It's not a gin. I don't know anything. No, it's not gin. Lavender water. Next one. How do you relax?

It's one of my biggest vices, I'm afraid. I really like Cuban cigars and [00:14:00] I've got a, probably can't see it might be this. I've got a human door behind me with cigars in that's how I relax smoke a cigar. You don't take the smoke down. It's the healthy way to smoke

out for an hour on a single cigar with a glass or something. And it's just my Zen moment. It's the best part of the day. Nice. Nice. What's your favorite film that you've watched over and over again? Okay. I know the film that I've watched more than any other it would be Enter the Dragon with Bruce Lee.

Oh. It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory. So I know most of it were perfect. I love the accent as well. Perfect. Perfect. And a popular opinion that you. Dislike. Pop Or something popular. Something that is very popular, which I can't stand.

Leggings. [00:15:00] Leggings? Absolutely hate with unbridled passion, leggings. leggings often? Or? Only underneath my jeans. Whenever I see a girl in leggings, she reminds me of an act of a comedy. Comedian from before I was born got, well actually he wasn't, I did see him on telly, a guy called Max Wall and he always wore leggings and, and the shoes would look like Dr.

Martens. And if I see so many leggings, I just think it's the most unattractive thing on the planet, which is why I don't wear them. Okay. Well noted because God, I wear leggings now. I'm not going to wear leggings ever again. They're very popular. And of course there is a thing when ladies with slightly more fuller figures.

Whereas when they stretch and you can see, yeah, see through leggings is not a good look. Not a good look. Leggings with a long jumper and high boots. That is unacceptable. And a long coat all the way down to the floor. Yes. Matrix style. Keep [00:16:00] going. That's it. That's, oh no, your dream car. Aston Martin. Ooh, which one?

I'm not really sure because I've lost track, but if I had to pick one and I had all the money in the world, I'd go for a DB5, the one that James Bond had in Goldfinger. Very nice. It's a pig to drive by, by all standards. There's no power steering, there's no power brakes, it's absolutely a nightmare. Who cares?

It's an Aston Martin. Favourite music? Prog rock for the 1970s. Pink Floyd, Genesis, Emerson, Lakin, Palmer, Moody, Blues, Barkley, James, Harvey. You won't know most of the stuff, you're far too young, but it's I can, I can picture it though, because of, I've seen pictures of you from when you were younger. So I know that you were a bit of a, you know, I was, yeah, I think you probably had pink spiky hair at one point in your life.

So you're admitting that there was a potential I had hair at some point. Yes. [00:17:00] I had spiky hair when I was going through my punk phase in 1976. It was, it was gelled up a little bit. I can picture it. I can picture it. And favourite holiday destination to take a cab? New York. New York. Ah, yeah, I went there with the missus few years back for a birthday and on the last day we were there she went off shopping and left me in Times Square with my camera.

It was like a child in a toy shop. I was, I had never been so happy with a camera and since or before it was It was just, it was like the best thing on earth. Everywhere you look, there was something to photograph, something going on. It was fabulous. I would go there again in a heartbeat. Yeah. I do love New York.

It's gorgeous. Okay. I have a question that you asked me that I would like to know your answer, which is who influenced you? Back in the [00:18:00] day when you started photography, who was your biggest photography influence? When I started photography, well, back when I started photography, there weren't any books.

Writing hadn't been invented. No. It would have to, if we're going back to the 70s, because I started in 1969, so in the 70s it would be David Bailey. David Bailey, then yeah, it's changed now. My my tastes have changed. Mm. Now my favorite photographers would be Serio Salgado Joe McNally, t Elliot oh gosh Saul, er for American.

Um, brain's Gone Dead. That's just a few. Yeah. Oh, oh. And, and just recently discovered. Guy called, Oh, I'm not going to run across the room and get his book. Alan Shaila, English guy street photography, fine art street photography, love his use of highlights and shadows, Alan Shaila. Okay.[00:19:00]

S-C-H-A-L-L-E-R. Right. Well there you go. Yeah. Thank you everybody for pulling up with that. Now, got time. Let's have a look at some of the, your life. Let's go back to 2017 when I, you and I first met and you knocked on my door, so to speak. Mm-Hmm. . Talk me through your experience on that. 'cause I obviously.

You were just one of quite a lot of people going on at that time. Back then I was teaching everybody privately before around workshops. Yes. And it's very hard for me to memorize Where I was at. Yeah, so give us a quick overview. So, I I had done a few different photography courses. I did an online diploma with, I can't even, I don't even remember who it was, but I did an online diploma which I passed just kind of the basics of photography.

I went up to London and did weekend workshops with different, [00:20:00] different companies and I was actually being paid. To take photos. Even though I was taking most of them on auto. Because, which I think was, it was half a confidence thing. And, and half a, a kind of stressed out, I didn't know how to change between different settings quickly enough for the, for the shoots I was doing.

And just to give you a brief overview, I was just working for a playground company. Local playground company. They were installing play equipment into schools all over the country. My mum worked there. And my mum told me how much they were paying their photographer. So I stole my niece and nephew and I took them to a local park in Fleet, took some pictures with my camera, put a portfolio together, like a printed little book, gave it to my mum and said, give this to your boss and tell him that I will do the photos for ridiculously [00:21:00] cheap price because I just wanted to be Paid to do photography.

And because I was shooting everything on auto and also I was shooting JPEG. I wasn't even shooting using raw. I hadn't even heard of raw. I didn't know what that meant. I wasn't editing any of the pictures. I was literally going out using a fancy camera, not that fancy. It was a 100D and, and I was being paid.

And I just. It didn't sit right. I felt like a complete fraud. I didn't have any confidence. And then I stumbled across you, you, you, you were, I'll come to that. You were at that point, one of those things that professional photographers grumble and moan about putting them out of business. What most professional photographers might admit is that they [00:22:00] all worked for silly money before they started charging sensible money.

And I could tell you stories that I've heard. the low amounts of money I was charging for so much work. It was mind blowing, but you learn through that process, don't you? When you, when you first start doing it, go on. When did I start? No, I said, when you first start doing it, you learn so much. You might charge silly money, but it forces you into situations, which are great learning exercises.

They teach you some skills, some of which are very painful because you make some serious mistakes, but what, what a fabulous way to learn. Yeah. I mean, Once I had met you, and it actually started to understand the camera. Because also, I think I've mentioned to you before, I've never been officially diagnosed, but we're, we're pretty sure I'm dyslexic.

So, I find, I find recalling information really hard, especially when it comes to the camera and, you know having [00:23:00] different kind of focal lengths, and in this situation, I need this setting. I'm a very Intuitive photographer. So, Once I started coming to you and I understood more how to use my camera properly and I moved away from auto, and I was shooting, I did it slowly.

It took me a long time. I was, I was shooting aperture priority only. And then I'd have the odd occasion where I'd switch it and I would be shooting shutter. priority. I mean, now I shoot fully manual and I love it. And it, it, it has taken me a long time to get there and a lot of practice. And like you say, a lot of shoots where I have had panic moments and I've thought like, no, just breathe, calm down.

What would Kevin tell me to do? Let's just reset everything. Start again. You know, take my time and get the camera working for me again. But certainly in those early years, that transition from absolute [00:24:00] fraudster, there's no way I should have been charging for photos to where I am now. That year with you was absolutely the transitional point for me, having done so many different courses and it just not really sinking in.

And also because I was then being offered work while I was with you and I had the confidence to go in because I'd been able to say to you that I've got this job coming up. I think Fleet Panto great example. I started doing Fleet Panto I think when I was with you. And the first year I did it all for free.

They didn't pay me. But I was able to sort of say to you that I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and do this for free because I love the theater and. I think that's where I wanna go with photography and just to have that confidence that even when I was on a shoot, I felt like if I needed to, I could have contacted you and said, this has happened.

Help. I don't think I ever did need to do that. And [00:25:00] you, you did, did I? You did. Yes, you did. But, and you've already mentioned it because that was the point I suggested you got the nifty 50. Yes. Yes. So the nifty 50 was actually a, a whole different level. And, and that was a. That was a different company.

That's so I was, I was shooting some stuff for Fleet Panto for free, sharing the kind of images on my social media. And obviously Fleet Panto were using it. It was the first year that Fleet Panto had had professional actors come into Fleet to do the Panto. And a really old friend of mine who runs an event and PR company in London contacted me and said, we've got the Prince's Trust Awards coming up in London.

Can you come and get some behind the scenes photos? And at the time I hadn't really realized what the princess trust awards were. And so to, to turn up knowing that you [00:26:00] had my back, you told me use the nifty 50, you know, you, you even said to me, these are the settings that you're going to need to use on your camera.

So I had that confidence. It wasn't until I walked into that theater that I realized this theater is full of celebrities just everywhere. Ant and Dec host it, you know, there, there, there are 12 to 15 celebrities doing the awards. There's celebrity ambassadors. I was so out of my depth on the surface, but I've now done the Prince's Trust behind the every year since, bar COVID.

It's still my favorite job every year to do, and I still use my nifty fifty every time. Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, I'm going to take you back to that period where you were coming here for the year. What do you remember [00:27:00] most of all from those early sessions? Just being frightened. Really? I remember being really frightened.

Certainly the first session I was really nervous. Really nervous because I, because I, well, cause I knew I was coming in as a fraudster and that's how I felt and I remember sitting in we were in your studio at your house and I got my camera out and and you started talking and I don't know it just It was just so easy It was just so easy and I I think you even said to me, you know, no, there's no silly questions You know ask anything And I did.

I asked everything and I liked the fact that you set me tasks each week. And so I had to go off and do my homework [00:28:00] and then come back to you and we would really go through it. And again, the Prince's Trust, that first shoe, I remember bringing you the photos and that real sense of it doesn't matter that the client likes them and that the client has now booked me for a different job.

All I really cared about was, is Kevin going to like the photos? And this is the thing, it was the same, you know, we come forward however many years it's been. Seven, six, seven, seven years. And when I went, when you got in contact about studio, again, it took me right back. I was so nervous. Oh gosh, Kevin's gonna come to the studio.

Is he going to be proud of me? Because I think you become that you become that role model, don't you? And the kind of the [00:29:00] photographer that I look up to and I don't want to get too soppy. I, the feeling was I wanted to make you proud because we worked so hard. I felt like we worked so hard together in our sessions.

Yeah. It obviously works. And of course you're a very determined young lady. You're, you've got an entrepreneurial spirit. The way you went out and got business is far more adventurous than the average photographer. So you, you deserve to have got what you got. It's hard. It's never easy, and just putting yourself out there, I mean, I still look back at pictures and think, oh, good enough, and I don't think that ever changes, I think, yeah, the more you evolve, the more you look back at your previous work and think, oh, I wouldn't have done it like that now, or, you know, interesting that actually because I'm saying I agree with you and I'm very critical of my own work. I look back at stuff I did two or three, four, five, six, [00:30:00] seven, ten years ago and I pick holes in it. But I think it was last year. Might have been the year before. I found a stack of negatives from the very early 1970s, which were obviously shot on film.

So I scanned them in tidied them up a little bit in Photoshop because they were covered in dust and scratches. And I'm looking at them thinking, jeez, when I think about how primitive the equipment I had then was, I was a much better photographer then I am now. That was my feeling. Because it was all done without automatic focusing.

It was all done without automatic exposure. You know, I had a light meter and so on. Very primitive camera. You know, you wind it on, take one shot. You've got to get the exposure right. You can't check it. As soon as you're taking the shot, and there was no Photoshop back in those days, and I'm in awe of what I managed to do.

And we've become very lazy now because we rely so much on technology to take the difficulty out of it. Yeah, [00:31:00] and just as kind of a side note from that. One of the things I struggle with now as a photographer is quite often I'll be in a situation where I'm setting the camera up to take a picture. It could be that there's food at an event and it's really low lighting, but the food is looking gorgeous.

So, you know, I just want to get a little quick picture of, of the food and I'll be setting the camera and someone will come up next to me with an iPhone. And they'll take a picture and I can see that their picture on their iPhone is perfectly exposed. The food looks amazing. The camera's done everything for them.

And I think, well, mine's going to look as good as that. What you're highlighting there is the main reason, not the only reason, but the main reason why photography is so important. Is not growing the way it used to. In fact, many ways it's, it's, [00:32:00] it's plummeted because the iPhone or whatever camera you use is readily available.

It takes great pictures. You don't need to be, you don't need to go on a course to know which button to press. No, exactly. And there are limitations. And if you try and make, bring it up to big screen size or make a print of it, the picture comedy is not gonna be very good. But for most people, they don't care.

It's gonna on Facebook or Instagram and. If it's a choice between an iPhone or a full size camera, if you're going out, Oh, I can't be bothered with the camera, I'll take my phone instead. I understand. I was told by a student just within the last couple of weeks that. camera cells are picking up again. I don't know if that's true.

I haven't substantiated the claim, but it would make sense to me that we've reached the bottom of the curve and now we're starting to go up again. To go up again. I hope so. I do hope so. [00:33:00] Okay. All right, let's move on. I want to go, this transition you made then to professional photography. I'm just looking at my questions on the side here.

What was that transition like for you going from student to professional? Or was it because you were already being paid a little bit? I think, yeah, because I was already being paid there wasn't really a standout moment where I thought, Oh, I'm a, I'm a real professional now. I always have moments where I still feel like a, like an imposter.

I think, I think a lot of people, imposter syndrome is real. You know, I'm going to just stop you there for a second. Another little anecdote for over a year. I ran an online quiz for photographers in Southern England and I paid a lot of money to get this working, but it gathered me loads and loads of [00:34:00] data about photographers and the way they think because he asked.

But 45 questions, so it took maybe 10 minutes to complete, but it built up a picture which presented then a report to the person who filled it in and told them a bit about their skill level and where they were strong, where they were weak. But what it gave me was data about photographers, amateur photographers.

And one of the questions he asked was, What's, what one single thing is more responsible for holding back your development as a photographer? And ignoring time, because that affects any hobbies, the single biggest answer was confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Confident. So I've discussed this with various workshop groups I've run, and they all say, yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

And they all say, yeah, imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome. Very, very common.[00:35:00]

Are you a passionate amateur photographer in Hampshire or the surrounding areas? Do you ever feel like your hobby is a solitary pursuit? We know no matter what your hobby, it's much easier to stick with it when you have friends to share it with. That's why we created the Hampshire Photography Network, a free Facebook group for amateur photographers who want to connect, collaborate and grow together.

Ready to connect with other photographers in your area? Head over to Facebook and search for Hampshire Photography Network. Just remember to answer the three simple questions to gain access. So the background is And I'm really sorry to any middle aged white man listening or watching the podcast. And I by no means want to go into the whole Me Too movement.

It's not about that. What it's about is, more often than [00:36:00] not, I walk on to photo shoots. It's big events and, and publicity stunts and I can be with a crew of 60 to a hundred photographers, videographers, sound crew. I mean, it really varies. Stage managers, more often than not, I'm the only woman certainly the only woman holding a camera.

And the comments that I get I just, Never witness these people go and say this to each other, but more often than not, I'll be on a shoe. I'll be in the middle of photographing something and a white middle aged man will come up to me and start hammering questions. What camera am I using? What setting am I on?

Why am I doing it on that setting? He's got a better camera than me. He could do this easier. And, and honestly, if this hadn't have happened. on [00:37:00] 90 percent of the shoots that I go on, then I wouldn't have this opinion. But I always feel like I'm being put on the spot and I'm, and I'm being, I have to prove myself to them that I know how to use my camera and, and I know what settings I want to use.

I often, and I'll be so interested for any of your female listeners, if I'm alone here, or if they've ever experienced it that sense of having to prove myself as as good a photographer as them. And I think, yeah, it's just always really bugged me. And then obviously you get the sexist comments from the men that don't really understand that time's moved on.

So it's now inappropriate to ask me if I've bought a bikini to a photo shoot, even though I'm the one behind the camera. Stuff like that. And, [00:38:00] and I'm always polite. I'm always polite, Kevin. I kill with kindness. And I always just laugh. Yep. And I always just laugh. And I, you know, I've been known to ask back, No?

Did you bring your bikini? And that usually stumps them because they're like, why would I bring a bikini? Why would I? Yeah, so that's kind of the background of where it comes from. And also, sorry, I'm going on a bit of a rant. Also, my opinion only is sometimes I get the feeling if I don't shoot the same way that they shoot, Then I'm doing it wrong.

Yeah. Okay. I can, I can, the reason that we're having this conversation is because we've already had this conversation. We should just let everybody know that. And I, as soon as you told me, I said, [00:39:00] this needs to be part of our first session together because it's important. And. I'm not the most politically correct of people, if you knew me as well as my wife does, she would say I am not.

In fact, I often go out of my way to be completely the opposite, and that's part of my character, that's my personality. I am, one of my personality traits, I understand it is a trait that belongs to a certain group of people on the planet, is that you buck against the popular, what everybody else does. do the opposite.

But of course, this is more about the fact that I come from a different generation and I haven't grown up with a, with a woke attitude. So anything which is popular today, usually I don't like. But, as you told me the story, I was, to be frank, I was, I was horrified and embarrassed that guys were behaving like that.

I thought we'd moved on. I really thought we'd moved on. And maybe I just moved [00:40:00] on and, you know, I just don't know that there are lots of guys who behave like that. So ordinarily if I see stories on the television that, you know, one particular minority group, I'm not saying ladies are a minority group, but lady for top professional photographers may be a minority group.

Whingeing about something. I, ah, someone's whinging about something else, but I didn't feel that when you told me the story, I felt, shit, this is ridiculous. And guys are behaving like this. So I was, I was embarrassed for the white middle aged male. Okay. So I certainly would like to hear from any other ladies who would have experienced any of this kind of stuff.

What I would like to open up the conversation. Is to see, okay, so you're experiencing that in the events and what do you call it? The events and PR. But I wonder whether there is any experience of this in the world of amateur [00:41:00] photography, because I can tell you as a new amateur photographer with digital, when I first went digital, about 2005, 2006, I felt very intimidated by guys Lots of equipment.

That sounds bad, doesn't it? So if I go out photographing wildlife and there are big guys out there with big, long, 500mm, 10 grand lenses and I've got this little cheap sort of 1600 pound lens that I've got and their lens probably cost 10 grand. I'm thinking, God, these guys must be amazing and I'm in awe of everything they do.

And of course, as you spend more time in a hobby or interest or amongst people, That particular group, you realize that the size doesn't. reflect their ability, the amount of money they spend on their gear doesn't reflect skill level. And I know that from all people I've been teaching over the years that it's quite common for someone [00:42:00] who's just got into photography to spend thousands of pounds and they just can't take pictures because it's all about hoping the gear wouldn't take the picture for them.

It doesn't. So getting back to my story and why it relates to you is that I felt intimidated By other photographers with lots of gear. So there is an intimidation, but it might be more about my own imposter syndrome thing going on, but I still, it gives me a chance to empathize with the way that you've been feeling from your own experiences.

What was your reaction? Can you remember when it first happened? What can you remember what you thought? Would it affect your self confidence on your own levels? Massively, massively. The first time it happened, I just, the first time it happened was actually I was photographing a friend's wedding as a favour.

And I don't do wedding photography that's just not an interest of mine. But I did it [00:43:00] as a favour, they couldn't afford a photographer. They were having a small wedding and I said, look, if you want me to get some nice images of the day, then I'm happy to do that. So completely for free, you know, and I was taking some pictures of them.

There was a gorgeous bridge. So we, I took them and their bridesmaids did a really nice picture. And one of the wedding guests came up to me and said, why are you taking the photos? And it was a white middle aged man. And I, and I looked at him and, and I said, oh, I just, I, you know, I'm a photographer. I told them that I would do the, the photos.

And he said, yeah, but look at your camera. He goes, I, I could take a better picture with my camera. And I, and that was kind of the first time it happened and I kind of walked off and I thought, okay, okay. He, you know, maybe he's annoyed that they didn't ask him, but were you using the five? Yeah. [00:44:00] Yeah that was kind of the first time it happened and I, I didn't really think anything of it the first time and then the second time again, I was in a theatre Ant and Dec were on stage, they were doing tech rehearsal, I was getting some pictures of the cameramen, because that's my job, it's not to get pictures of Ant and Dec, it's to get pictures of the cameramen doing their job.

And and I was, I was getting some pictures. I was in full flow, and Guy appears next to me and he's a, he's a, a cameraman, a TV cameraman, and he says oh, what what ISO are you on in here? And I was like and it and again, it comes back to the dyslexic thing in that moment, I don't know. I don't know because I've been shooting in this room for an hour.

I set the ISO. An hour ago, I haven't, I probably haven't changed it since then. And because I stumble because I just can't recall without looking at the camera, [00:45:00] then it's a bit like, I feel stupid and then that imposter syndrome comes back out and, you know, I watch, I've watched over the years, if there are other male photographers, They just, nobody approaches them.

And I don't know whether it's a, oh, there's a woman here and she's the only woman, so let's go and talk to her so that she doesn't feel alone. Or whether it is just, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Some things happen that I think, okay, you're just, you're just being a knob because you obviously don't like that I'm a female photographer.

And then I have other experiences where I think, okay, you've probably got daughters. I'll give you an example. I was on a, I was on a boat on the Thames, but it was an eight hour shoot. It was absolutely freezing. It [00:46:00] was a nighttime shoot. I was on a boat with eight guys and one of the guys came up to me and said it's getting really cold.

Have you bought hat or scarf or gloves or anything? Now he obviously only asked me, he didn't ask any of the other guys. And. For me, I don't think, Oh, that's him being sexist. I think he's probably a dad. He's probably got a daughter. He's probably thinking if this were my daughter, I'd want to make sure she was warm.

So sometimes I think, no, it comes from a caring place. And other times I've had experiences where another guy on that shoot asked me if I had bought my bikini. I think, Oh my God, it's 2024. You can't ask me things like that when I'm in a professional environment. You would never go into an office and say to a female colleague, [00:47:00] what bikini did you bring for today?

Like that just wouldn't happen. So I have different feelings on different times that it's happened, but it gets to the point where when it's happening on almost every shoot that I go on, you think, no, come on guys, you need to do better. Indeed. It's it's, it's terribly sad. Yeah. It is embarrassing from my perspective as a middle aged, well, older than middle aged, old white male.

Well, I'm middle aged now, so. Yeah, well, not almost, not nearly yet. So I, I don't know that you have a lot of exposure or haven't had a lot of exposure to the world of amateur photography, obviously, which is what the area that I'm interested in. I'm now directly linked to because of the teaching that I do.

Do you come into contact with many amateur photographers? No, because, and [00:48:00] this stems, I think, from this experience that I've had. I don't want to be around other photographers. That's how I've ended up feeling. Oh, I can complete. Yeah. Because photographers are pretty rubbish lot, but I know where I'm going with this is because there are in any hobby, in any interest, in any profession, they're the nerds and most of the nerds.

If not all of them, nearly all, 99. 9 percent are guys and they're middle aged, they're white middle aged guys who are nerdy and I'm sorry if, if you're white middle aged as an amateur photographer, amongst us there are, there's a strong percentage which are a bit Nerdy and typically I experienced them as [00:49:00] when you were a kid, I don't know whether your parents ever did this, but certainly mine didn't, but I knew I had family members who did they go away on holiday and you come back, you invite around to watch their holiday slides and you all sit in the front room and they have a projector running and they click through one slide and then another, and like four hours later, you're still going shots of him and his wife on the, you know, In their, in their bathed suits on Brighton pier, whatever it is.

And there was, there, there was this cliche or, Oh no, we're not going around to look at holiday photos and you do anything you could to wriggle out of it. Well, that now has been replaced by, Oh, let me show you a picture I took on so and so. Oh, and I must show you this one. And, and you're, you're at a workshop and I'm sorry, guys, if you've done this to me, but you know, this is the hard truth.

Looking at someone's pictures on their phone as they swipe through them, hundreds of them. Yeah. is remarkably boring. And I say this at the loss of losing business. Yes, I can. [00:50:00] Because if you're going to be a photographer, one of the skills that you need to acquire is discernment. It's like a photographer who posts pictures onto their Facebook or sometimes on a Facebook group.

And I upload. 30, 40, 50 plus images. To be honest, once you've gone past the first 10, you've lost the will to live. You don't want to look at anymore. So it's a complete waste of time. And it's all down to lack of discernment. And in nearly every case, this is a white middle aged male doing it. And I don't understand why.

I think people just need to tell them, don't do it. I don't do that anymore. Yes, it's really annoying and you're showing yourself up. The guys who get the respect are the ones who submit one picture. Three at maximum. Yeah, yeah. Discernment is a skill you have to learn. I would just [00:51:00] like a few more female photographers.

Yes. To, to join the network. And, you know, I didn't join amateur networks and photography networks because I didn't want to be the only woman in the room because it was hard enough at work and it is getting better. It is getting better. There are more women crew members now. In amateur photographies.

There's probably more ladies than there are guys now. Amazing. Not in clubs, maybe because clubs can be. Clubs can be a bit nerdy, not all of them, but I have been to some nerdy clubs. In my workshops, generally, women outnumber the guys. And I think maybe because they're more open to learning, whereas guys tend to, I know, don't need to go to a workshop.

Although some of my closest friends now are guys who've been on my workshops. Yeah, which is great. We don't, we don't want to get rid of the guys. [00:52:00] No. We just need a few more female voices. And actually, I did a, I went up and did a course on food photography. Just to kind of freshen up and, and get some new ideas.

And and, and we were all women, five of us on the course, which was, which was lovely. So they are out there. And like I say, I've definitely noticed it more when I'm on sets. I am noticing there's more women in the room now. It, it would just be nice to have a much we need to do a workshop just for ladies.

Okay. We do, we could send him vibes out to anybody listening, any ladies listening, a workshop just for ladies. And, you know, I can do a bit, but you would, you could potentially play a, play a very important role. Yeah. Because there will be female photographers that aren't comfortable joining into your [00:53:00] workshop.

Okay. In case they are going to be the only women. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's unfortunate, but it is just one of those things. So, ladies, if you feel you want to have a conversation about this, or you've got something you think is of value to add to what we've already spoken about, put it, where are we?

Put it down below or send an email to support at go h go hsp hampshire school of photography go hsp. com And we will address it. I'm in the process of running a beta group of testers for online training, online workshops. And it might be that we could run something specifically for women on there.

So I think this is a great idea and if the support for it, then we'll, we'll take it forward. Thank you for that much. And for your background on all those other things. [00:54:00] Horrible things you've had to go through because obviously I know and the people local to me know what you've just done in Fleet.

Yes. Take it away, Kelly. So I have opened a photography studio on Fleet High Street for photographers, local photographers, to hire out, to come and practice anything that they want. They can bring clients, they can just come in and practice. It's a gorgeous studio. We've got dressing room. We've got steamers.

We've got clothes rails And you can have it completely privately. It's a self service studio So you can and immediately it takes away that You know, I looked at hiring a studio locally. I could have hired the studio, but the words said There is a photographer on hand to help you if needed, and I thought, I don't want that.

I just want to go in [00:55:00] and mess around with my camera, figure out on my own, without a photographer standing over me telling me I'm doing it all wrong. But equally, if you want to have a photographer there, then that's where you come in, Kevin. Because you can run workshops there, can't you? And things like that.

So. Yes. Well, as you know, we were there only yesterday with a group who were on a one year portrait course with me. And they were quite excited as we walked away because before I moved out of premises back in January, so seven months now, we've been without our own studio there weren't too many.

obvious options. There is another studio some distance away and I've been trying to work out something with them, but I found them very uncommunicative and very uncooperative, and I could never actually get in front of them to discuss how we could work together. It was almost as if they saw me as competition and they didn't want to get involved.

That's another problem I have with [00:56:00] photographers, always seeing everybody else's competition.

Most people work together and cooperate. Yeah. Anyway, so it never happened. And then when you opened it, I thought, Oh, Thank goodness for that. So tell, tell, tell us more. What have you got there? So it's, it's a very basic setup, which is what I wanted. We've got, we've got six backgrounds, we've got all the lighting that you need to do a decent shoot.

Got the triggers for all the lighting so you can use them with your camera. Whatever camera you've got, you can put that trigger on your camera and fire all the lighting from there. Nice. Yeah. You would explain that if they'd never been there before, wouldn't you? Which button? Yes, of course. There are also printed instructions on how to connect your trigger because you'll use one of our triggers to attach to your camera.

And there's instructions with the triggers on how to link it with the lights. You're [00:57:00] missing the most important ingredient, the chocolate and the sweeties. There are, yes, chocolate, biscuits, lots of really naughty things to eat, tea and coffee, water. Yes, it's a, it's, it's, it's there for people just to enjoy the space.

And I wanted to provide an environment, an affordable environment for local photography. It is very affordable. It's, to be honest. This is going to sound almost tacky, but you're the cheapest Judy I've ever come across. And that's because you're unpretentious. Yes. You're not trying to It wouldn't probably appeal to a lot of sophisticated professional level.

It is aimed at amateurs, isn't it? It is aimed at amateurs, yeah. Although a pro could use it. I mean, if you wanted to take someone to do a headshot, they could do it. And there's enough lighting there to get it cracking easy. But from an amateur's point of view, it's, it's, it's not intimidating at all. At all.[00:58:00]

And that's exactly, exactly what I wanted to go for. I didn't, I, I want to provide people with a space that they can come, feel comfortable You know, without that intimidation, that's exactly it. We're open seven days a week. I've tried to make it as accessible as possible because I realized that amateur photographers might have full time jobs.

So we're open 10 AM till 10 PM. Most days at the weekends, we shut a little bit earlier just to avoid the kind of evening traffic in fleet. But I've tried to make it available. seven days a week for you. So you can just go on, pick your time slot, pick your day and you're done. And then you just get a little message.

Telling you how to how to get in there couldn't be easier. Wonderful. Okay. Well, I think we've probably reached the end of this first show, the [00:59:00] relaunch. Thank you to everybody who's listened and thank you in particular. To Kelly for your input and your help. And I'm looking forward to going ahead over the next year or so and seeing how our partnership on air partnership flourishes and grows.

So Kelly and I will be meeting fortnightly and in the weeks in between, I'll be doing a solo show. answering your questions. And I might do some other stuff as well. Now this is where you have an important role to play because I need questions. I'll provide a link down below. If you click on it, you'll be taken to a place where you can record your questions audibly.

So you can just speak them to the computer or to your phone or iPad or whatever. It'll record your questions. I get sent those questions and then I can play them back on air. So we get to hear your lovely voice online. That's exciting. And I'll have a [01:00:00] good source of questions that everybody else can listen to.

So, do do that. Don't be terrified. If you don't want me to play your voice, just say at the end, this is for record only, please don't use my voice. If your question is picked, it'll be played live on air, and I will do my very best to answer it. Okay, I think that's it. I'll see you in a week's time, without Kelly, so it'll be the solo show, and Kelly's back in two weeks time.

Thanks so much for listening. Bye!